Too late! I download Apollo yesterday, just after I got the announcement email.

Only beginning to play with it now, so no opinion as yet.

Paul

http://www.codeapollo.com

Ich, der eigentlich überhaupt nichts mit Flash zu tun hat und auch eigentlich immer abgelehnt hat, ist total begeistert von Adobes Apollo.
Nun was ist Apollo? Apollo arbeitet ähnlich wie Java mit eine Virtual Maschine. Diese ermöglicht Web Applicati…

Ah! I see – that makes more sense to me now.

As much as I would like to see Java reborn on the client , I’m not holding my breath. (BTW I didn’t say Java was dead, only that it’s difficult to get 2 bites at the cherry).

There is an investment every year to learn new skills, and you try and pick the ones that will pay off the best both in the short and the long run.

So the question is do I bet my time and effort on a technology that could be big (again) i.e. Java client. Or do I go with a company that has a good track record in delivering plugins that work in the browser (i.e. Adobe , with Flash and PDF being 2 major success).

It’s not a choice that I like to have to make. Maybe I’m biased by the fact that I have enough Java Client skills / experience to cover that are (should it make it big), and I need to get to a similar situation if Adobe wins out.

None of the above is about the technology , but a mercenary decision on what is going to pay the rent in coming years

Paul

Your point was java client is dead. My point was “WTF did Ajax come from” meaning I thought it was very short sighted of you to say that…esp b/c javascript was more dead Jade Goody’s career, and then bam…Google Maps came out and everyone went gaga on AJAX.

Java’s capabilities on the client *have* come a long way (e.g. SWT based applications are as good as anything I seen built with .Net).

It’s a pity the distribution lags behind – including Java Web Start. For you non-techie user there is nothing as ’smooth’ an install experience as (for example) is available with Flash.

I’m confused by the last line; it seems to imply Javascript = Java which we know is not the case

Sadly , sometimes , we do only get one chance , and it is hard to regain momentum once lost. If only Sun / Java had somebody like Steve Jobs to champion it!

Paul

Also, you’d be foolish to think that you get once chance at it, and are not capable of redefining yourself…WTF did AJAX come from?! Hello javascript!!!!

Peter,

If we can get people to install a new client side application. That’s a big if, but I hope somebody will come out with a standard that people can agree on . Adobe seems the best bet – people don’t trust Microsoft. Java had his chance , and failed on the client.

If we can get people to install a new client-side application, then the options are wide open. We could take this opportunity to get back to a single implementation language. Note that just because you’re using only one language doesn’t mean that all of a sudden you have to deploy it the old fashioned way. For example, instead of downloading an HTML page full of CSS, JavaScript and Flash crud, a URL could download some binary instead. And that binary could be written in a single language that makes developer’s lives a lot easier, just like the good parts of the good old days.

My understanding was that the Apollo runtime would be a 9mb download when it arrived. Did I get that wrong?

Paul

Went into the Spec in more detail – it’s a 9mb download (ouch!), whereas Flash is pretty much installed on every machine (thanks to YouTube at the very least).

*IF* Adobe ties this to the flash download and *IF* people swing behind it then I can see huge demand for it (see Bruce Eckels original post). Those are still 2 big ‘IF’s and only time will tell …

Paul

But the problem is that they’ll have to implement too much classes like socket connections, file access and so on. So I think the base language will be AS3 and javascript you be able to call it

But I believe that, when you create a screen in apollo, you have to choose from a HTML environment or MXML environment

Yes, sometimes I look back to the ‘old days’ when life was a lot easier – one language easier. Then I remember the pain of having to deploy each application on every single PC, with it behaving differently on each

We’ll have to see where Flex goes and if apollo fulfils it’s promise. Bruce has a point though – sooner or later Ajax will run out of steam.

Paul

From reading the docs , it looks like the intend bundling the same html rendering engine as used in the Safari browser.

Paul